Katherine Sorbey
December 13, 2010
Listuguj

"We didn't count as a people, as human beings."

Katherine Sorbey, Mi'qmaq

It was shocking and it was also a shock… When the Canadian government unilaterally imposed residential schools on the First Peoples, they saw it an act of inconceivable domination, a form of human and cultural trauma that led to the destruction of the family unit and deep despair. The moral values of respect, sharing and caring for others, naturally transmitted through language and experience, could no longer be passed on. Parents were cut off from their children and were deprived of their ability to teach, only to be replaced by foreigners who did not share their culture. While the foundations of nations were under attack, spirits fled. "We could have never understood," agrees Katherine Sorbey. “I couldn't, and still today, I can’t."

Ms. Katy Sorbey is seated facing a window with white lace curtains. Near her is a green wall decorated in framed photographs.

Well, a lot has changed you know, the relations have changed among our… I think mostly due to, uh, the cultural change has taken place, because of the loss of language. Within, within the language, the Mi’gmaq language, or most Aboriginal languages, the moral values of a people are built into the language, like the respect, you know, the honour, and, uh, there’s really, uh… I don’t think there has ever been a hierarchal type of setting with our people like, like they have today, you know. We were raised, even in my, in my day you know, we were raised to, to be, what little I can remember of my childhood, a lot of people were equal, equal, you know. The the need, the sharing and the caring and... Like the Mi’gmaq nation was like a family. It was so closely knitted, in such a way that one example I can give you probably over again is that, uh, because of the, uh, total respect for our elders, and their, uh, respect for the life that they have lived, you know? That they learned a lot more than we did. We never got to their stage yet. And we were being primed for us to be good people when we got older, so it was primed in you from when you’re a child, you know? And through the language, and it was, uh, it was not a difficult thing, we didn’t think it, we never ever saw this as a lesson you know, we just lived it, you know. We just lived it, and, and the examples that were set to us by our fore fathers, grandmothers and whatever, they made so much sense to living on a daily basis that you didn’t need books, you know? So it was, uh… So I think over the years, the loss of the language played a big, big part in the root nation, of Aboriginal people nation, nations. The family unit was gone, the teachings of the grandfathers and the grandmothers, and the mothers, and the fathers, the uncles and aunts, it was taken away. It was taken away from the, uh the parents. And I totally believe being as a mother today, it must have been an awful devastation for these parents, you know, to get their children taken away from them, you know, and lose the ability of teaching, lose the ability of the spirit, the spirit was gone. They were cleaned out spiritually. You know? No chance at all to, uh, to practice the way they were brought up for their children and all because of the government’s regulations for the Native people. And nobody, nobody seems to understand the devastation it created. And I totally believe that for, oh my God, for over 50 - 70 years, the Aboriginal nations I believe had lived in a despair darkness, a darkness of culture. You know? It took away so much from, the build in, build in of a nation which wasn’t wanted by the Canadian government anyway. They just wanted us to disappear, you know, disappear and not, uh, like we didn’t matter as a people, as human beings, and we didn’t matter, you know. And it’s all, uh, we could never understand it, I couldn’t as I am a person… Even today, I still don’t understand it.

Rose-Anna McDougall. Anne Tremblay
June 29, 2011
Pikogan

"I didn't feel the belt."

Rose-Anna McDougall, Anishinabe

When she was at the residential school, Rose-Anna McDougall was often called to the principal’s office to be disciplined. One day, she said to herself, "You won't hurt me anymore!" and despite the repeated blows, she didn't feel the pain. "It's dissociation," Anne Tremblay explains. To escape the pain, your mind disconnects and it blackens your soul. You no longer feel anything, good or bad. And this reaction, like the trauma that caused it, deeply affects your life. With help, we can break down the walls we built to protect ourselves, find our way back to our emotions and start living again. We’re living again.

Indoors. Rose-Anna McDougall is siting to the left of the screen and her daughter, Anne Tremblay, is to the right. There’s a desk in front of them.

Rose-Anna McDougall

They took us to see the principal. The principal father, he gave us, like, a good thrashing. I remember that one. I said, when you say to yourself, uh, when... I believe in that, when you tell yourself, “You, you won't hurt me. You, you won't hurt me.” Because I would see my little, my cousin, getting spanked. And let me tell you, I was so afraid when I saw that! So, when I saw that, I said to myself, “Oh! You, you won’t hurt me anymore! You won't hurt me!” That’s what I thought to myself. And, uh, when he came to get me, to spank me, it's weird eh? It didn't hurt. I didn't feel that fine belt. Oh! That’s something, you know! I didn't feel it, the... the blow. Well, you know you can... I don't know how I did it.

Anne Tremblay

It’s called dissociation. You can disassociate yourself.

Interviewer

Oh, yeah? I didn't know that.

Anne Tremblay

The feeling is so strong that you can disassociate yourself, but there’s consequences to that.

Interviewer

Yes.

Rose-Anna McDougall

And then, well, I, I laughed, the man, I laughed, well not the man, the priest eh, I laughed and he was red, red, red, red. And I thought it was funny.

Interviewer

While he was hitting you, were you laughing at him? It angered him!

Rose-Anna McDougall

Because he was angry with me! But I was trying, you know... He was angry with me, but I thought, he was angry with me, because he wasn't hurting me. It's weird. […]

Fade out.

Anne Tremblay

Well, that's because, you know, at some point, you don’t feel anymore. You know, dissociation, what it does is that, when something happens to you even something joyfull; you have trouble experiencing your feelings because you've learned to always dissociate yourself from things, to dissociate yourself for, it's like you’re protecting yourself, it's a way of protecting yourself. You don't want to get hurt, you don't want to know, you don't want to feel, so you no longer feel neither the good nor, uh, what's good or what's not good. If you've learned to dissociate yourself from things that aren’t good, you don't want to feel, you don't want to know it, you dissociate yourself from it, you try get away from it so you don't get hurt. “You won't hurt me.” So you disassociate yourself from that. But when something good happens, within your family or something like that, sometimes you can't feel everything. Do you understand? So it, it has a consequence on such things.

Interviewer

Well, we've often discussed the whole emotional aspect which is important for harmonious health. But now, it seems as if it's fully or almost fully non-existent?

Anne Tremblay

Well, it had an impact, you have to relearn.

Rose-Anna McDougall

Because when something happens to you, and let's say you're scared alright, right away, unconsciously, you shut down. That’s the protection inside you, within you. So, you know, you don't have any, there's something there that’s broken. You question yourself, just like I did, I wondered why I felt such things. But, I didn't know that it all came from the past, what I experienced. I completely... I couldn’t feel. When my sister, my sister died, or when my brothers died, I couldn’t, it didn’t affect me. I was completely dissociated. I mean, uh... I said... And then I said, “Why do I feel this way?” I said, “I feel indifferent? I have such a cold, a cold heart.” I often felt this way. “Well I have such a, such a heart of stone,” I said. I only felt...

Interviewer

You didn't understand why right away?

Rose-Anna McDougall

Well, no! No! I didn't understand why right away. But, at one point I underwent therapy as I grieved my.... Something happened to me regarding my brother, and all. Oh! It definately stirred things up, lots of things that, because I poured my heart out. And here I was wondering. And then, people didn't understand me. I tried talking to... I didn't understand myself, and others didn't understand me. I wanted to find a way to cope, but I wasn't able to… I was only able to start talking about it once I went to therapy, what happened when I, uh, when I received a beating and I didn’t feel pain. That's when I started to understand. “Ah! Yes! That was it!” And when it happened, one of my brothers died. Not long after, but eh, I mourned this time, you know. I lived that experience. But the others, I didn’t.